Curse

Red · Jun 22, 2007, 02:30 PM // 14:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed.

So... this post is a whine about the whining over whiners? XD

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No, that post is win. It's good ta know that at least SOME people understand--a lot of us who yell loudest about the issues, are in fact the ones who actually care about the game, in the sense that we want to see ANet get better. To be honest, a lot of the people who WOULD write negative posts with bitterness and just completely lacking in constructive criticisms..... they've already left the game :/

Gawa · Jun 22, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

The problem with everyone's interpretation of this problem is that what one person considers a flame another person does not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Flaming is the act of sending or posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting.

A flame is typically not intended to be constructive, to further clarify a discussion, or to persuade other people.

The motive for flaming is often not dialectic, but rather social or psychological

Sometimes, flamers are attempting to assert their authority, or establish a position of superiority.

Other times, the flamer is simply a closed-minded or biased individual whose conviction that his is the only valid opinion leads him to personally attack any "dissenters."

Occasionally, flamers wish to upset and offend other members of the forum, in which case they are trolls.

Most often however, flames are angry or insulting messages transmitted by people who have strong feelings about a subject.

Zero tolerance on flaming?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Originally Posted by Guru Forum Rules

Every post and thread should add to knowledge rather than mislead or contribute to the confusion.

Posting meaningless deranged psychobabble with no substantial merit or posts that do not contribute to the thread discussion will more than likely be deleted without notice.

Any post which violates civilized standards of decency or good conduct will be deleted immediately and without any further notice.

Repeat offenders will be temporarily or permanently banned.

Flaming is the act of posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting. A troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages intended to cause a disruption in discourse and to provoke other members into hostility.

..personal attacks are not warranted...

If you cannot be respectful to others, then don't be surprised if those in charge are not respectful of your continued privilege to post.

...do not spam these forums, or such posts will be deleted. To determine whether or not your post can be considered as spam, ask,
"does this add to or advance the thread in a constructive way." If you answer, "yes," then chances are, you're good to go. Examples of spam posts include: “Yeah me too," "lol”, “that’s what I wanted to say…,” “what the guy above said…”, etc.

A warning may or may not be issued for violating any of these guidelines. When you have accumulated a substantial amount of warnings... you will be temporarily banned...If you break the rules repeatedly you will be permanently banned, no questions, no excuses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

..the issue is that the flaming is bad everywhere right now... If the overall opinion of the community right now is negative, we can not supress or try to silence those who want to speak out....So while we our monitoring volatile threads, this takes up time, so maybe more spamming is getting through. This is why we ask for your help in reporting posts!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

The flaming and general abuse in Riverside is pretty horrendous, maybe it's time to fully introduce mini-bans to that forum? I know we do occasionally ban the odd 1 or 2 users (normally the same faces) but perhaps it's time we got mean, Ventari's soon shaped up when 0 tolerance was introduced.

I know people will moan (don't they always?), but the vocal trolls do make that forum a nightmare for someone who just wants to catch up on the latest news and TRY to have a discussion with their fellow gamers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions.... Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it......the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go.

*tounge in cheek and with a twinkle in his eye* I dont think VBulletin allows founding admins to ban themselves Inde

(seriously though, i hope one last time that i am showing how i reach my train of thought. This is nothing to do with Anet bashing.. (i would have liked the thread title to be "fed up with bashing and flaming?").. just bashing and flaming in general, which i can not see anyone agreeing is ok to do ever. I attempt to be objective in my posts and can not see where i am being unreasonable or objectionable. Anyhooo...

)

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 22, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that.

My point is that many of the posts that are negative are not written in what many people would consider a polite manner. I do not mind a well written and concise complaint about a matter of concern. Am I wrong to ask that people just treat each other in a civil manner. If I disagree with someone I don't have to be rude about it. The terms flame and bash may be just words but they carry a very negative connotation. Maybe it is all just in the way things are presented that would make all the difference.

Commander Ryker · Jun 22, 2007, 04:48 PM // 16:48

I say, continue bashing anet as needed, but add a healthy dose of bashing ncsoft as well.

ensoriki · Jun 22, 2007, 04:51 PM // 16:51

So what do you want to do if people are negative?
Tell them, you are not allowed to post your feelings in that manor because it angers someone else? Putting limits that aren't needed just turn things into prison.

Quote:

that people just treat each other in a civil manner

Civil manner...means that people would have to treat each other all the same. If thats the case we lose diversity, a better term would be to treat each other with some thought.

The bashing of A-nerf ^.^ probably starts when some1 is on their computer going "Wha..wha...Soul reaping NOOOO...motha.." and instead of sitting their thinking it over they go to get feedback from others by bashing, maybe its a form of therapy.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 22, 2007, 05:04 PM // 17:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by ensoriki

So what do you want to do if people are negative?
Tell them, you are not allowed to post your feelings in that manor because it angers someone else? Putting limits that aren't needed just turn things into prison.

Civil manner...means that people would have to treat each other all the same. If thats the case we lose diversity, a better term would be to treat each other with some thought.

The bashing of A-nerf ^.^ probably starts when some1 is on their computer going "Wha..wha...Soul reaping NOOOO...motha.." and instead of sitting their thinking it over they go to get feedback from others by bashing, maybe its a form of therapy.

Civility: 1. formal or perfunctory politeness
2. the act of showing regard for others

Am I wrong for just asking people to act with civility?

OI-812 · Jun 22, 2007, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Apparently some of you people think that people like me never offer any constructive criticism to A.Net. I am now going to shoot your argument full of holes and burn it to cinders.

A.Net: The amount of graphical quality you have squeezed into GW boggles my mind time and time again. The fact that a relatively lackluster computer can wring so much graphical detail out of an online game without choking amazes me. Every other game I have played that can compete graphically with GW makes my lackluster secondary PC cry and beg for mercy. I applaud you.

The fact that you do not opt to charge a monthly fee is something you deserve to be beatified for, in an age of crappy MMOs that require a subscription fee (hello, Vanguard!), you somehow pull off a no-monthly-fee MMO/CORPG that bests Vanguard and some others like it at nearly EVERYTHING. I salute you. I have no idea how you do it, but I salute you.

The creative originality you display with the creation of the various environments and enemies throughout Tyria, Elona and Cantha is awesome. The ingenious character class concepts you have created such as the Dervish, are something to be lauded in an age of cookie-cutter "fighter-mage-priest-rogue" MMO class systems.

You are now punishing people who spam in chat channels when they should be using trade channels. I like that. That was a good move.

The simplicity of your weapon/armorcrafting system is to be applauded. Many other games turn crafting into an ordeal, only pursued by the grognards and gluttons for punishment. Not GW.

There are probably more things that I LOVE about GW that I have forgotten. But this is a start, to show that I am capable of doing something besides raking you over the coals.

Rocky Raccoon · Jun 22, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by OI-812

Apparently some of you people think that people like me never offer any constructive criticism to A.Net. I am now going to shoot your argument full of holes and burn it to cinders.

A.Net: The amount of graphical quality you have squeezed into GW boggles my mind time and time again. The fact that a relatively lackluster computer can wring so much graphical detail out of an online game without choking amazes me. Every other game I have played that can compete graphically with GW makes my lackluster secondary PC cry and beg for mercy. I applaud you.

The fact that you do not opt to charge a monthly fee is something you deserve to be beatified for, in an age of crappy MMOs that require a subscription fee (hello, Vanguard!), you somehow pull off a no-monthly-fee MMO/CORPG that bests Vanguard and some others like it at nearly EVERYTHING. I salute you. I have no idea how you do it, but I salute you.

The creative originality you display with the creation of the various environments and enemies throughout Tyria, Elona and Cantha is awesome. The ingenious character class concepts you have created such as the Dervish, are something to be lauded in an age of cookie-cutter "fighter-mage-priest-rogue" MMO class systems.

You are now punishing people who spam in chat channels when they should be using trade channels. I like that. That was a good move.

The simplicity of your weapon/armorcrafting system is to be applauded. Many other games turn crafting into an ordeal, only pursued by the grognards and gluttons for punishment. Not GW.

There are probably more things that I LOVE about GW that I have forgotten. But this is a start, to show that I am capable of doing something besides raking you over the coals.

Your post is commendable and is an example of how to convey your thoughts in a concise polite manner. If other peoples complaints were done in the same such manner as your compliments it would be a much better environment and people would be more apt to listen. Thank you

VanDamselx · Jun 22, 2007, 07:36 PM // 19:36

I think we're all a little bored right now due to the fact that really hasn't been much new content since DoA went live. I think people are getting antsy and aren't distracted by a whole new campaign so the "problems" are much more obvious.

Although I do completely agree with the OP. There is rude criticism and constructive criticism and most of the time people don't act very polite towards Gaile (accusing her of withholding and making false statements), when they don't realize what's behind everything. Of course this game has flaws but I think people need to look at what has already been fixed as well as what does need to be fixed. If you look at the complete list of wants in Sardelac, most have been fulfilled. It's great that A-Net listens to the community.

I think some people just need to take a break. I find myself playing less and less not because I'm particularly angry and of course there are changes I wish they'd implement, but I'm bored.

ensoriki · Jun 22, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Your post is commendable and is an example of how to convey your thoughts in a concise polite manner. If other peoples complaints were done in the same such manner as your compliments it would be a much better environment and people would be more apt to listen. Thank you

While his post is rather different from what you usually see here. Is it wrong for people to show an aggressive response? When I mean aggressive I mean as in a straight forward way. Sure being rude may not be what people want to see, but people are going to get frustrated.

You can usually tell how even when someone is angry about something and complaining that they like the game so much, by how long they've been around.

I can say, A-net I appreciate all you've done with Guildwars. Though we all payed to play, if we payed and a few of us have all 3 chapters then people are going to feel a need to complain when things they payed for didn't happen.

Although...those who only have prophecies...and bought it 2 years ago should stop complaining.

scottyboysn · Jun 22, 2007, 09:00 PM // 21:00

Yeah I'm sick of it. I think ANet does an amazing job. If you have a SUGGESTION for the dev team, throw it in the suggestion forum. All I see is "ANet sucks" or "ANet you HAVE to change this". Feedback is great but the way some people deliver it is horrible.

I <3 ANet

Tiny Killer · Jun 22, 2007, 09:19 PM // 21:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by OI-812

THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.

One of the Top 5 Greatest Falsehoods of All Time.

Age · Jun 22, 2007, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

Well I'll pop in and comment on one issue in this thread. The problem with everyone's interpretation of this problem is that what one person considers a flame another person does not. I've seen a lot of you call someone out for flamebait on another forum user because YOU feel attacked when I can run a persons post by several people and others will see nothing wrong with it.

A discussion can be negative and not have flaming in it. Some of you don't believe that though. If it's negative and YOU disagree with it then you consider it flaming/bashing. It's only someone's interpretation of flaming that can be debated. Please do not accuse the mods of "not doing anything about this" because your own personal opinion differs from theirs.

The community is restless. This happens EVERY time between chapters.

It's called a "trend" and the moderators on this forum are more then aware how these all play out. Deleting out whatever anyone else considers a 'negative' opinion is not good moderating. The community wants to have a voice on issues and we allow you to have that voice. I can delete out someone's post saying "anet sucks" and be called a "fanboy site" while there's plenty of other 'negative opinions' in a thread. I can delete out a one-liner saying 'good job anet' that doesn't contribute to a thread and be called an 'anti-anet site'. Again, all perspective people.

I can guarantee that I see more posts then nearly anyone else reading this thread. I read more fansites, more guild sites, more blogs, news articles and more on Guild Wars then nearly all of you. I know the overall opinion of a community. Let me stress again that a 'negative' opinion does not equal flamebait. We delete out hundreds of posts every day on this forum. We edit and close hundreds.

The bashing that you all see going on... there are right now more positive threads on the front page then negative. I do believe some of you are choosing to close yourself off and that you purposely like to open up any thread that is controversial just to prove your own point and say "see all the bashing going on?!". There are a lot of issues with Guild Wars right now, people have strong opinions and express those opinions because they hope and are involved in this game. They care! Otherwise they would just bypass posts entirely.

I also believe that some of you are choosing to ignore some of the problems Guild Wars has in favor of blindly following a game and it's developers. Wow, yes I know I'm being very blunt here. It all boils down to this (yeah this will probably be the closest to flaming you'll ever see coming from me) I don't mind Anet bashing or negative opinions. I believe that you are trying to send a message and I carefully weigh whether your posts cross a line i.e. insults, unconstructive one-liners, etc. I don't want to silence that. Quite frankly what I'm tired of is the whining. !!!!!! I said it. The whining about the complainers, the whining over whether a build has been nerfed, the whining because you feel Anet is being bashed. So.... there you go. And guess what, I allow that too. Because I feel your voice needs to be heard just as much as what you consider a basher or flame.

What do yo think when the big car manufactuers read the the stuff in The Lemmon Aid Car Guide as well as Consumer reports magazines.This really isn't nothing new.It is just that game developers are't use to it that they may have bad product imagine this on the Nightly News with John Stosell with ABC consumer reports news.He has doen lots of consumer reports on any manufactured items.There are several on this board who have more than one account and how many copies of the game.Arenanet made more money in than Blizzard did with World of Warcraft in the first year of release.That is a big accomplishment it just would be nice if Arenanet would see all this how much we all gave them support.It just makes it tougher on the average player to make ends meat if you want to say so.

Vamis Threen · Jun 23, 2007, 11:11 AM // 11:11

Re: Animosity: Forums are where frustrated nerds, bored with a computer game after exhausting it (and what game can sustain several thousands hours interest to be honest?), go to vent their puerile rage. I know, I'm one.

The posts represent highly polarized sections of the community of game-players, and probably not the casual customer Guild Wars is aimed at.

Burning Blade · Jun 23, 2007, 06:10 PM // 18:10

Look like complaints are not accepted by these Lengendary Defenders of Arenanet. I am sure 1-liners such as "good job Anet" or "I love Anet" would be more constructive to them than "I hate this update" or "Anet made a mistake". All these LDoA want to read are POSITIVE posts toward Anet.

stevedallas · Jun 30, 2007, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Not for nothing... when it comes to constructive feedback vs. flaming... one of the things that pushed me away from GW is because my constructive criticism as well as my support issues were ignored.

I was treated so poorly by aNet's customer support, received such a nasty letter from their support staff, that I attempted to contact them about it. My communication went ignored. I used to save the message I received from their support and even used it as an example to my staff on how not to treat anyone they support.

I faced many of the bugs and glitches that many other players faced - the hero arena unlock bug, the issue with the online store, many of the issues that were reported to effect "some users" in update notes. Issues with accessing HM both on a character that has completed all three chapters as well as with other characters on the same account that may have only completed one or two of the chapters. The only reason some of these were resolved was because aNets users banded together long enough to post work arounds for some of these bugs. Unfortunately, the majority of these still effect my account.

How much is enough? What is reasonable and what is unreasonable? Where do you draw the line? What should we expect in the way of support? What do you do when the publisher fails to provide you with the support thats part of the license agreement? Report it to the BBB? What would they seriously even do about it?

Love of the game does not necessarily balance well with satisfaction with the publisher in most cases. My experiences with aNet have never really been positive which is unfortunate because I once truly enjoyed their product.

In my particular case, abuse is a two way street. As far as I'm concerned, aNet has earned - in fact instigated - my animosity which is why I now only use their product to keep in touch with my real life friends who are also players.

When it comes to personal experiences and motivations for the behavior of people on these sites, simple flaming may not actually be the only reason for a particular brand of commentary. None of us are in the position to even question the motivations for a thread of commentary, be it positive or negative, because none of us really know what anyone else has experienced with aNet or any other publisher.

All I can really say about that is that if you don't like what you're reading, skip to the next response.

The moral of the story that was told to me as a player is this: Buyer Beware.

Vinraith · Jun 30, 2007, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Quote:

The posts represent highly polarized sections of the community of game-players, and probably not the casual customer Guild Wars is aimed at.

QFT

I'll also just add that I've played this game for something like 750 hours over the past 18 months. That makes it my #2 most played game of all time, and I still keep coming back to it. Anet must be doing something right.

Scary Raebbit · Jul 01, 2007, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Better Business Bureau

BBB Reliability Report
The Better Business Bureau®
Serving Alaska, Oregon and Western Washington
1000 Station Drive Suite 222
DuPont, WA 98327
206-431-2222
www.thebbb.org

Arenanet Inc
10020 Main St Ste 164
Bellevue, WA 98004-6056
www.arenanet.com

Based on BBB files, this company has an unsatisfactory record
Of the total of 10 complaints closed in 36 months, 6 were closed in the last year.

Maybe the BBB does care?
I suck at copy/pasta.
Changed it so it isn't such a page stretch, refer to bottom.
If you just want to look at a better version:
http://www.thebbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=22017235

Omega X · Jul 01, 2007, 02:31 AM // 02:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vamis Threen

The posts represent highly polarized sections of the community of game-players, and probably not the casual customer Guild Wars is aimed at.

Casual customers most of the time won't care and will move on quickly when things bore them.

Casual fans however can and WILL post here or in another forum similar regardless of the ultra generalizations made.

After all, in order to succeed in this business you have to pay attention the the fans as well as bringing in new customers.

magnawiz · Jul 01, 2007, 02:42 AM // 02:42

I think Anet has gone out of their way in providing customer satisfaction. They've done a terrific job in my opinion. I think they've done the best they can in meeting our demands (realistically).